View Full Version : US "Grand Prix" is a farce
Anyone else see the race? 6 cars ran. Exciting stuff. Not.
The 'race' was won by Michael Schumacher, team-mate Rubens Barichello taking second to give Ferrari 18 championship points which puts them joint second with McLaren.
The teams on Michelin tyres did not take part because they believed a chicane should have been added to slow down the final lap where Ralf Schumacher's tyre inexplicably blew on Friday.
F1 officials and Ferrari refused to sanction the proposal, which was backed by the nine other teams.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4109604.stm
Shocking that Ferrari would veto a suggestion that would allow all the other drivers to compete. And coincidentally, not having anyone with any skill on the track meant their useless duo got a 1-2 and the team climbed up into second place in the constructors championship! How handy!
Still... would other teams have done the same thing? Quite possibly.
http://salmonupload.info/i/_40643322_gp3.jpg
Internationally acclaimed arsehole Eccleston being heckled by journalists.
http://salmonupload.info/i/_40643366_grid-getty300.jpg
The starting grid. :wtf:
Idiophreak
19-06-2005, 22:43
I think everyone should leave the poor bridgestone guys alone.
their sponsors would have taken them to the cleaners if they didn't race when they could
and at the end of the day, it is a competition. There are a choice of tyres, if you chose cowboys who make magic "exploding tires" you can't go whinging about it.
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 01:23
Of course you can't really blame Ferrari too much although Jordan and Minardi (who benefited a lot from this) both wanted the other cars in the race. The real people to blame are the FIA for not realising that the greater situation was the duty to the fans than to run race that follows the rules perfectly. You saw racing fans on tv that had basically planned the trip of a lifetime - they'd flown in from other countries, stayed in a hotel and paid for GP tickets. That's a lot of cash! Loads of other small buisness men probably lost out on this too. Gah!
so sad and so avoidable.
I don't know if Michelin are to blame (maybe only bridgestone tyres survived because they had insider info from their sister company firestone racing the track in the indy 500 so had diff tyres). Maybe the track is to blame. Anyway, the organisers didn't help the fans at all. F1 will struggle in the US for years to come now.
play_boy_2000
20-06-2005, 04:19
i don't understand what the problem is that caused this?
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 04:28
the F1 cars have a lot more downforce than the indy cars. They were racing on an indy car surface which had a banked bend. To add grip to this bend, the track was cut with a diamond cutter. That's fine for indy cars, the grip improves! But with F1 cars, and their enormous downforce, going over this (grooved??) surface puts a lot of pressure on the tyres and they explode.
Or at least that's what I deduced from what was said on tv.
play_boy_2000
20-06-2005, 05:52
thx dh.
I've concluded: the sport sux (unless its in HDTV with 5.1 :D )
Idiophreak
20-06-2005, 10:18
its just like totally michelin's fault.
It's not that bridgestone had insider info, just that they generally design more "conservative" tyres. And there are no excuses michelin can possibly use. at the end of the day, if bridgestone had working tyres, they should have to.
Once everyone (team, FIA etc) have finished beating the crap out of michelin for this i doubt they'll be around for long.
its just like totally michelin's fault.
It's not that bridgestone had insider info, just that they generally design more "conservative" tyres. And there are no excuses michelin can possibly use. at the end of the day, if bridgestone had working tyres, they should have to.
True. Even if the ultra-high performance tyres didn't work on the corner, they should have had slightly "worse" but hardier tyres ready as backup (that's actually in one of the gazillion F1 rules)
Once everyone (team, FIA etc) have finished beating the crap out of michelin for this i doubt they'll be around for long.
I still hope people will beat the crap out of the FIA and in particular that worm Bernie Eccleston. Ugh. People must have known there would be an issue... and there was plenty of time between the accident and the race to sort it out... it would have been in the greater interests of the sport (screw Ferrari, sore losers) and the fans of the sport to alter the track so the FIA should have been straight in there to make the changes.
He tried to take the British Grand Prix away by saying the track wasn't up to scratch, then oh so kindly agreed to continue as long as he got a more beneficial deal for the following years. I think he took a chance with the US GP - let's see who he blames... will he be looking for blood (cash) from Michelin to stay in the game?
More info:
Letters between FIA and Michelin:
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/190605-01.html
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/190605-02.html
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/190605-03.html
Those letters do make Michelin look like the culprits (and idiots)
If I were an American motorsport fan, I'd stick with Nascar.
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 13:22
its just like totally michelin's fault.
It's not that bridgestone had insider info, just that they generally design more "conservative" tyres.
are you sure? that's not what the tv was suggesting
anyway, even if it was Michelin's fault for not having tyres suitable for the track (if they weren't told that the track had been modified then it's hardly their fault), as plow said, the FIA screwed up. They could have salvaged the day for the fans and themselves and worried about the fairness of it all later.
Michelin determined to stay in Formula 1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4110808.stm)
Henry-Biabaud said Michelin had no option but to withdraw.
"Michelin would have been to blame if it had raced. Can you imagine what would have happened if, having seen the failure on Friday, we had decided to race the tyre and we had a problem," he told Europe 1 radio station.
"I prefer, as a company, we find ourselves in this position rather than if there had been an accident."
He blamed the specifics of the Indianapolis track and he hit out at motor racing's governing body, the FIA, for failing to agree to a compromise.
"We proposed realistic, feasible alternatives," he added.
Starting to get all the angles now
"We have a tyre which is quicker. We didn't use that because we knew what is going to face us here. I'm not saying the others purposely chose something wrong, but whatever it is, it is their problem and not our problem."
Michael Schumacher, F1 world champion
"I don't know what more the Michelin teams could have done to get a race on safely. We offered so many options and were open to ideas. We offered to let the Bridgestone runners start at the front, we offered everything but sadly for the fans it did not happen."
Martin Whitmarsh, managing director McLaren-Mercedes
"It seems the Michelin teams failed to bring a back-up tyre as usual with them to Indianapolis. The FIA offered them options which would have allowed them to compete safely within the limitations of their tyres. For some reason they chose not to accept those options."
Max Mosley, FIA president
"The bottom line is that Michelin screwed up, but after that the FIA had in their hands the ability to make sure that a race took place."
David Coulthard, Red Bull F1 driver
"On a day that called for strong governance, innovation and compromise, or at least a decent back-up plan, self-interest and intransigence ruled."
David Tremayne, the Independent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4110170.stm
A breakaway F1 "cup" has been mentioned for a few years now, maybe this really is the year that the bulk of the teams will oust the FIA and go it alone?
Each of the teams, with the exception of Ferrari, agreed on the morning of the race not to compete unless a temporary chicane was installed ahead of the final turn to slow the cars down.
But Stoddart, whose team claimed their first double points finish for 16 years, said: "It was anti-safety - putting in the chicane was a safety measure.
"The argument could have been about whether it was a points-scoring or non points-scoring race, but we would have still entertained the crowd.
"In any other business there'd be calls for the person who did this to resign."
Stoddart also defended his team's decision to race.
"The only reason the Minardis went out was because Jordan didn't adhere to an agreement they'd made earlier about not racing and that left us in an impossible position," he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4109978.stm
(Stoddart is the Minardi boss)
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 15:02
I'm now a Minardi fan :cool:
"The bottom line is that Michelin screwed up, but after that the FIA had in their hands the ability to make sure that a race took place."I totally agree with this
If you think about it... we've never really discussed F1 before, and now here we are talking about it!
Perhaps once again any publicity is good publicity! Then again, we're talking about how stupid it is... hmm...
And yeah, I agree with Buzz Lightyear too.
Idiophreak
20-06-2005, 17:00
I have no doubt that they COULD have modified the track etc to make it "more of a show" for the fans, but this wouldn't have been fair on the teams with the smarts to have non-exploding tyres.
The only way to decide fairly how the points should have been divied up between (there was never the option of the michelin drivers getting any points out of the race) them was a straight race, which is what happened.
As schumi said, it really wasn't their problem.
What it boils down to is that F1 is a business, not a sport, so don't expect people to be sporting when your business smarts let you down.
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 17:47
i'm not blaming ferrari or the teams.
but the FIA had the power to do something about it. Yes we're asking them to abandon strict strict rules but tbh they can surely do that if it's in the interest of safety. It makes business sense to please the fans.
http://salmonupload.info/i/_40643322_gp3.jpg
Waiting crowds and quicly summoned TV crews discover Ecclestone is not dead.
It was funny seeing the American fans with their 'I came arl the way from Stenchville for this!'. There was a guy from Manchester sho was just like 'OK, so the race didn't really happen, I flew over the Atlantic to get here, I'm a little dissappointed but I've had a good time anyway...'
EDIT: Didn't James Allens voice seem exciting for once?
Idiophreak
20-06-2005, 23:13
i'm not blaming ferrari or the teams.
but the FIA had the power to do something about it. Yes we're asking them to abandon strict strict rules but tbh they can surely do that if it's in the interest of safety. It makes business sense to please the fans.
the FIA were over a barrel. There was no way of fixing it that would be fair toward the bridgestone runners, so they couldn't fix it. They can't disadvantage half the field because the other half screws up.
donkeyhumper
20-06-2005, 23:38
well if they decided in the end not to give the michelin teams any points then that would have been fair enough. Sure it wouldn't be perefectly fair but all i'm saying is that it'd by far be the lesser of two evils.
Idiophreak
21-06-2005, 00:00
a few tatruming yanks vs ferrari throwing half the lawyers on earth at you. it's a tough one.
the FIA is a governing body and would lose respect if it bowed over this. it has to be seen to be fair at all cost.
Idiophreak
21-06-2005, 00:08
"Your teams have the choice of running more slowly in turn 12/13, <b> running a tyre not used in qualifying(which would attract a penalty)</b> or repeatedly changing a tyre (subject to valid safety reasons). It is for them to decide. We have nothing to add."
there would have been a solution. one that's not been discussed much.
donkeyhumper
21-06-2005, 00:23
afaik they didn't have the different tyres there - that was the whole problem!
Anyway "a few tatruming yanks" is a gross understatement imo. F1 in the US will be seriously damaged - a potentially billion dollar market over the years set back a long way, tv companies might start demanding money back, advertising revenue could drop etc...
Idiophreak
21-06-2005, 10:51
bah, there were half the people there you normally see at a grand prix. And historically the sport survived without america, so it's no biggy :)
Teams charged with bringing the sport into disrepute:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4110808.stm
:wtf:
The video interview with Frank Williams is quite good... he's in a bad way though, christ, I haven't seen him interviewed for ages.
bah, there were half the people there you normally see at a grand prix. And historically the sport survived without america, so it's no biggy :)
There was liek 100 thousand people there... and that's not the biggest problem, there's been lots of talk about having a second F1 GP in N. America - this is hardly going to help that campaign is it?
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